Tuesday, March 23, 2010

Transcript of my interview...

March 23,2010... Finally, the D-Day had arrived! Reporting time was 9 am, so I thought I ought to reach UPSC by 8.40 or sth. But true to my habit, I got a bit late. It was already 8.30 and I was at my room! Anyway, I somehow reached UPSC's Gate No. 2 on time. Future IAS and IPS officers of the nation had already gathered there by that time. We were then led into the grand, circular waiting hall. Ambiance was quite cool. Each member of UPSC chairs an interview board. There're 8 or 9 of them. One of them happens to be E.Balagurusamy, the person whose books on programming we used to study. So, I was in a fix, as to whether to brush up sth on computer science. But then, I thought going by the probability, possibility of me being interviewed by Balagurusamy was just around 10% and so, it won't be very wise to devote time to comp science when there're hell lot of other things to cover. So, I skipped it altogether, reposing absolute faith in the theory of probability . The night before the interview, I was just thinking that I should not be interviewed by his board. That was the last thing that I was expecting. Secondly, 6 candidates are interviewed by a board in a session. So, I was just hoping my turn should be second or third in sequence, else it would be too tiring and torturous to wait. Coming back to waiting hall, just around 9.45 am (first interview starts at around 10), we got to know that my turn was 5th in sequence and we would be interviewed by Prof. Balagurusamy!!! I would now cut short and bring the narrative direct to my interview. Just a disclaimer before I set on this journey; the interview was a bit unconventional (in the sense that members of board weren't asking questions taking turns, but rather it was a 'khichdi' sort of thing) and moreover, it was so really natural and spontaneous, that I don't recall the exact words I used. Point is, it's not a 'transcript' per se, as in its not verbatim. Having said that, I'd try my best to recall the lines and reproduce them, as closely as possible.

C- Chairman (Prof. Balagurusamy)
M1, M2- Members to his left
M3- Member to his right
L - Only lady member in the board
(Asking for permission, I enter the room and wish the members, first the lady member and then others...)

C- Jangid Lokesh kumar Ramchandra (Tries hard to pronounce my name with a considerable pause after each part; I help him out in pronouncing my last name correctly; He notices I'm still standing, so asks me to be seated; I thank him and take my seat)

C: So, which is your name in this?!
Me: Sir, I'm Lokeshkumar
C: Oh, so Jangid is your last name??
Me: Yes Sir
C: Ramchandra is your father's name..
Me: Yes Sir

Me: Sir, its the convention followed in Maharashtra; they begin with the surname...
L: Are you from Maharashtra or Rajasthan?!
Me: Ma'am, I was born in Rajasthan, but brought up in Maharashtra. I've done my entire schooling and graduation from Maharashra...

C: (Looking into my Mains Form and shaking his head with his long 'zulfein', longer than Dr. Kalam's, swaying along with it) You did this B.Tech in Computer Science (sounding blissfully ignorant while speaking; as if he was hearing the computer science thing for the first time ever in life!) in 2008. What have you been doing since then?
Me: Sir, since the optionals that I opted for the exam were quite new to me, I needed some time to prepare...

M2: (interrupting) You're talking about optionals for Civil Services Exam; but why did you take Civils after doing computer science?
Me: Sir, actually, in my case, it was not civil services after computer science, but rather it's computer science after civil services (Members a bit puzzled and listen to me keenly); what I mean is even before applying for the engg. course in comp sci, I was pretty well determined to take the civils.. But since UPSC has set graduation as the eligibility criteria for exam, I'd to finish my graduation in some stream and out of the options available, I liked engineering the most. Moreover, I'd a feel of the subject (comp science) as I'd studied comp sci in class 12 and I quite liked it. (Looking towards Chairman) Sir, in fact, we read your book for C++ in class 12...
M1: Sir, seems your book is very popular with students...
C: My book! C++ in class 12?! Which board? CBSE?
Me: No Sir, Maharashtra State Board.
C: (Teasingly) C++ in class 12!! Till today, I can't understand C++...
Me: (in a mild tone) Sir, I mean we tried to understand it with the help of your book...

M1: Okay, but why do you want to join civil services?
Me: Sir, right from my childhood, I've always felt this apathy and sort of indifference in govt administration. Like, for instance, when I used to visit the post office in my locality, people would come 15 min late, go for lunch 15 min before time, come 10 min after time and pack up things in eve. 15 min before the scheduled time of 5 pm...
M2: (Interrupting me) System has worked like this for past 50 years. You think an individual like you can change it?
Me: Sir, I think if one has this (stressing hard) burning desire from within, things can change. We always hear that things aren't well; system is rotten; I thought one can try to make a difference only after entering the system. Only by being part of the system, we can try to contribute to it..

M2: What're the qualities required for a civil servant? You think you posses them?
Me: Yes Sir, I do feel I possess them..
M2: What are they?
Me: Sir, I think first and foremost is the desire from within to work that I talked about. Honesty and integrity comes at the top of the list. One should have compassion towards people; then, leadership and initiative-taking capabilities...
M2: You talked about compassion; tell us one instance where you experienced it and did sth..
Me: Our engg college was situated on outskirts of the city, in a small village called Vishnupuri. So, we, a group of few students, took this initiative to arrange 'computer literacy workshops' for the students of village school. Secondly, we arranged night classes in the premises of the govt school in the village and gave them lessons in spoken English; the level of English proficiency is very low in that region; so we tried to suppress their inhibitions of speaking in English... (Second point regards 'night-school' concept was only under conception; we thought about it a few times but never implemented it actually; this was perhaps the only 'lie' in the interview, though it came spontaneously!)

C: But you didn't take up a job??
Me: Sir, actually, I had got selected in TCS in campus placement, but I didn't join it...
C: (Sarcastically) See (looking at members) , TCS!! He didn't join such a good company...
M2: Had you decided you won't take up any job??
Me: Sir, when I got enrolled for engineering course, I had a 'broad outline' in my mind that I would go for Civils 4 years down the line; and, if, in the meanwhile, sth fascinated me so much as to wean me away from this goal, I would look into it; BUT somehow that didn't happen, computer science didn't fascinate me that much and moreover, the passion for civils has sustained all these years...

C: Have you heard of World Economic Forum? What do you know about it?
Me: Sir, its presently led by Klaus Schaub and holds its annual meetings in Davos, Switzerland. It basically is a forum for deliberating on economic issues and it prescribes economic policies for nations to follow according to the prevailing circumstances...
C: But is it a govt body, private organisation, NGO or what?
Me: (after a very short pause) Sir, I don't know exactly...
C: Are it's recommendations binding on nations? Is it compulsory to follow them?
Me: No Sir, they're not binding; i think they're only of a recommendatory nature...
C: Sri Sri Ravishankar and (named some other fellow), both of them with beards, were invited to WEF recently... What role did they have? Why they went there?
Me: (a bit puzzled; trying to think) Sorry Sir! I'm not aware about it...

M1: Your being good and capable is not enough... there are various pulls and pressures in the system... (don't remember the exact wording, but he touched upon the point of political interference primarily) how will you handle such things?
Me: Sir, I do understand and appreciate your concern regarding political interference. It does exist in our system.. (Getting more emphatic) But I think, if one is really honest and upright, one need not get cowed down by anyone, including politicians; because the most they can do is transfer me around. And I won't mind getting transferred; in fact, I would cherish the diversity of experiences...
M1: (Interrupting) Even if your son has to change 6 schools in 10 years?!
Me: (Promptly) Sir, I would put him in a boarding school!
M1: And what about your wife? Won't she get agitated changing home every 2 years?!
Me: (Looking towards the lady member) Well, these things would have to be worked out before marriage itself.. I think I'll marry someone who has an understanding of these issues and shares such concerns...

M2: You've told when you finished your class 12, you knew what you wanted to do in life (or he said civils perhaps)?
Me: Yes Sir
M2: You must be 18 years old then?
Me: Yes Sir
M2: So, if graduation wouldn't have been the eligibility criteria, would you have gone for civil services after class 12?
Me: (Without any hesitation) Yes Sir! If there would have been sth of the sort of NDA process, wherein one can go for it after class 12 only, I think I would have gone for it for sure...
C: Hmmm... They're thinking about it... There was this issue...

M1: You've told about your experiences in Maharashtra (referring to post office instance and the govt school example of compassion). But this being an All-India Service, you won't necessarily be posted in Maharashtra. So, if you're posted in UP or Bihar, how will you solve the problems there better than somebody who is from Bihar??
Me: Sir, you've raised a very pertinent point here! In fact, I was really surprised and disappointed to know that many of my friends who hail from Bihar themselves don't opt for Bihar as their first preference. And others (outsiders) usually keep Bihar and UP cadres at the very last of the list. But if you see my cadre preferences Sir, I've kept all the 7 BIMARU states right at the top (after my home-state Maharashtra)... We always hear this thing, right from our childhood, and media projects its so, that Bihar is all bad and corrupt n all. But I thought let me just go there and check it out for myself...

M2: But there's one BIMARU state which has been mentioned in the reports by Planning Commission as one of the fastest growing states? Do you know about this??
Me: Yes Sir, it is Bihar. It has now emerged as the second fastest growing state in the country, thanks to the policies of the new Nitish Kumar regime there...

M1: (In a strangely 'excited' and a little sarcastic tone) You want to make a difference in the system; you'd put your son in the boarding school; you'd fight with your wife; your friends from Bihar don't want to go to Bihar, but you're ready to go there! So, you're all ready to take up this challenge??
Me: (Confidently) Yes Sir! Absolutely!
M1: Are you ready for this battle?
Me: Yes Sir...
M1: (Trying to destabilise) Is it a battle?!
Me: Well, it's a battle against the inefficiency and corruption in the system; it's a battle against poverty and illiteracy... So, in that sense, I do think it's a battle...

M2: You've done quizzing... hmmm... What is the speed of light?
Me: (A bit surprised by the question) Sir, 3 into.... Sorry Sir, I can't recall it... :(

M3: You've mentioned in your form quizzing, debating, extempore, elocution, etc. Where have you done all this?
Me: Sir, I won the prize at national-level in quizzing; regards debate, we used to have inter-departmental competitions in debating in college; elocution, I have been doing since my school days; I was in class 4 when I gave a public speech for the first time...

M3: I'll give you a topic to debate on. 'Should PSUs be privatised?'
Me: Sir, should I speak both FOR and AGAINST the topic?
M3: No, choose any one side and speak...
Me: Okay Sir... I'll speak FOR it... Can I have a minute to think about it?
M3: Yes! You also do extempore, so you shouldn't need that even...
Me: Sir, even in extempore, we do get some time...
M3: (Smiles) Okay...
Me: (I pick up the pencil and scribble the name of topic on the small pad kept on the table in front of me... After a min or so... ) Sir, in keeping with the notion of 'shrinking state' or 'roll-back of state' and the new-right philosophy, it has been increasingly felt in the past few decades that, state should give up those areas to private sector which pvt sector can handle better or as good as state, so that it (state) can focus on it's core areas. Only in areas where pvt sector is either incapable or doesn't desire to enter, state should intervene. Like, in the areas of heavy infrastructure, taking care of interests of under-privileged and weaker sections, education and healthcare for masses,etc. Others areas should be opened up for pvt sector. Cause it has been generally observed that pvt sector brings in more technical and managerial efficiency. I don't mean to say that all PSUs are inefficient; in fact, a few PSUs are working as well as pvt sector... But on a general note, pvt sector may be more efficient...
M3: (Looks at his watch) Only one and half min? (I was thinking I deliberately kept it short!) Its okay...

M1: This is your first attempt?!
Me: Yes Sir...
M1: Hmmm... Good!

M2: Did you join any coaching class?
Me: (Promptly) Yes Sir, I did join coaching classes.

L: You've sociology as one of your optionals...
Me: (With a smile) Yes Ma'am!
L: What are the social bases for politics in India?
Me: (took a bit time to grasp the question) Ma'am, I think Caste and Religion are the dominant ones... Then, we have class too...
L: Explain the class factor.
Me: Ma'am, as per the the traditional leftist ideology, the CPI, CPM and other communist parties, have their traditional support base in landless labourers, small and mid-sized peasants, industrial workers... what we call as 'proletariat class'... It is basically this class from which they derive support and in turn, work for articulation of their interests primarily...

L: Don't you think gender is an important factor?
Me: Yes Ma'am, gender is a factor in our politics, but I don't think it's as dominant as caste or religion...
L: (a bit puzzled) Your native place is Rajasthan. We have 50% reservation for women there in PRIs.... so...
Me: Ma'am actually I wanted to convey a different point. If you allow me to elaborate it...
L: (nods) yeah...
Me: During the time of general elections in a constituency, the political parties, while allocating tickets for the election, will see if the candidature of a particular candidate will be supported by the dominant castes and religion there... On the other hand, in case of women, we have more or less half female voters across all the constituencies; but they won't really look whether a candidate will be particularly supported by women or not... BUT they just can't ignore the caste and religious equations in the constituency... So Ma'am, it is in this very sense that I said gender is not as important as caste and religion in our politics...
L: (Seems satisfied by the answer)

L: You also have public admin. as your optional...
Me: Yes Ma'am...
L: 'Administration is link betn Government and people'. Explain this statement...
Me: Ma'am, govt is an institution which formulates policies for welfare of people. It's where admin comes into picture; as in, admin implements these policies, which the govt formulates, for the people... (couldn't contain myself from using the two palms to refer to govt and people and explain it with gestures) Thus, admin. is the action-arm of govt, what we call as 'permanent executive'. Citizens, on their part, come to admin. to seek redressal of their grievances regarding govt programmes...
L: So, you mean success of govt programmes depends on administration?
Me: Yes Ma'am, very much...

M2: You've lived in Nanded; there's a Sikh Guru associated with Nanded? You know about him?
Me: (I'd done my homework on this) Yes Sir, he was Guru Gobind Singhji, the tenth Sikh Guru. He went for his 'heavenly abode' at Nanded in 1708. He initiated the military character in Sikhism. Prior to him, the water used for baptism was stirred with Guru's toe, but he replaced it with the double-edged sword (to stir the water). He introduced the practice of 5 Ks (Kesh, Kangha, Kirpaan, Kada, Kachcha) in Sikhism. And most importantly, he elevated the status of Sikh holy book, Guru Grantha Sahib as the Eternal Guru for Sikhs, and discontinued the practice of human guruship...

M3: After independence, we embarked upon the five year plans (and went on to speak something about it; I listen very keenly, suspecting some 'heavy-duty' question coming my way) Which is the current plan?
Me: Sir, 11th FYP (I expect next question on targets in 11th FYP or sth!)
M3: What's the duration?
Me: (Pleasantly surprised) 2007-12
M3: (Nods, looks at chairman) Okay!

C: Pick up any of the cards from the stack. (I picked up one from the middle; C asked me to read aloud)
Me: 'Politics without principles is a sin'
C: (Swaying his hair) Explain...
Me: Sir, can I resort to examples from our country's politics?
C: Of course, please do...
Me: Sir, more often than not, in our country, we see that political parties take different stands when they are in power and opposition; we see that many a times, opposition opposes the party in power not based on principles, but just for the sake of opposition... (C agrees and nods) For instance, even on a sensitive issue like terrorism, it took an event like 26/11 for parties like BJP to stand united with the govt in the Parliament; I mean, it portrays a very poor picture in the international arena, if we politicise such an issue..
I'll just give an example to prove my point... Sir, Tamilnadu has the most efficient PDS in the entire country! (*I had read about it just a couple of days before the interview, in a World Bank and SAGE publication on 'Efficient Public Service Delivery') This is because there, AIADMK and DMK, both the main parties in the state politics, are very much committed to Social Welfare Policies like PDS, Women's welfare, etc. So, none of the parties discontinue the social sector schemes started by the previous regime. In fact, in one of the elections, I can't recall the exact year, the party in power lost elections just because the price of rise under PDS was increased by a couple of Rs.
C: Yeah, that happens! Our govt in Delhi lost due to onion price-rise!

C: Ask us any question...
Me: Sir, I should ask a question?
C: Yes, any question...
Me: (After thinking for a short while) Sir, in the last couple of years that I've been in this process of preparing for civil services, I've felt, both through my friends on social networking sites (I had mentioned it as a hobby, but they didn't ask anything) and through my interaction with people in person, that most of the candidates want to join services for good intentions; to fight illiteracy and poverty, i.e. to make a difference... But somehow, when these very people get to the other side of the table, I feel things don't quite remain the same; and that is why we see the corruption and inefficiency in the system... So, I was wondering what leads to this drastic transformation in a span of just a few months or years?

M1: You've asked a very good question and now, you should answer this because it is your generation which is doing this...
Me: (thinking of an answer)
C: This is what happens every year! For the past so many years, people say so many good things in this hall and then forget about it...
Me: Sir, I agree! (Mildly) Sir, it's a common-sense notion that people will say good things in the interview room... But why would someone tell that to me, if he doesn't mean it?
C: To make you feel good!!
M3: Actually, it has to do with notions of power; before entering the service, one feels that he will have unlimited power in the service, but actually there are many pulls and pressures in the system...
Me: (humbly) Sir, I feel that one does have an idea that power is highly 'qualified' and it's after knowing all these equations, that one decides to take the plunge...
M2: There's a difference between 'youthful idealism' and 'pragmatic realism'; so when you confront the reality, things are very different...
M1: But now, for the next 30-40 years when you're in service, you should remember this aspect and follow it...
C: And I think 80% of the people are good, only 20% are bad...
Me: Yes Sir, there are many good people in the system...

Chairman stood up and shook hands with me...
Me: Thank you Sir; it was a great experience!
He gives me a toffee...
Me: Oh! Thank you very much... :)
I take the leave and come out of the room, feeling highly relieved and satisfied with my performance for the past 30-odd min.














16 comments:

  1. Wonderful and enlightening, Lokesh! I wish you the very best for a great career as a civil servant. :-)

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  2. Really excellent... and especially ur frank,tactical and smart answer for the, Q "why Civil services after Computer science?",has made me ur fan...It exhibit ur confidence...definitely you will see your name on the Portal of UPSC...I wish you a very good luck..... :)

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  3. Good one bro.. Wish u all the best.. mine was with the same board but on April 1st..

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  4. No words to appreciate you...
    I can't wait to listen the news!

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  5. Hi Lokesh,

    Hope you are doing well!!

    I am Lokanath and came to know about you from Ranjay. I thought your interview is similar of many persons have already given, but extreamly super, keep going on....

    "Well panned, Worked for that and executed"

    Dont mine UPSC board has satisfied your answers and you will get through. only thing to await is Ranking, i thought you did mains well and hope you should in first 10 ranks, that will the UPSC can refund you.

    Wish you all the best. Please share if anything useful for us to grab the people of UPSC.

    with warm regards,
    Lokanath.

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  6. I again congratulate u in advance,as ur performance seems to be really good and there are 100% chances of ur getting selected........

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  7. THANK YOU all for the good wishes! Feels nice to know that you people liked the conversation; I just hope the board too felt the same way, cause that's what matters at the end of the day! So,let's just keep fingers crossed... :)

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  8. Ambience has been misspelt.

    Hold’s’ its meetings in Davos…

    Found two typos before I could start reading, and not proof reading!

    A lot of my friends asked me how your interview was... I think I'll just forward this link ;-)

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  9. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  10. Hi, great performance:)...guess u would hv got selected!!:)
    even i am a CS student pursuing my 5th sem in R.V College of Engineering, Bangalore....i am very passionate about IAS profession, and very much similar to your case, i took CS Eng. just for the sake of a degree!...
    Now i have started reading newspapers slowly. i have decided to work for 1-1.5 years and then write UPSC exam...mostly in 2015..
    the oly worry is what if am not successful , and then wher wil i be placed down line 4 years later??
    so just wanted to know wat would be the good Backup?,.. so that even if by chance i fail my life wil be secure!!!...pls reply
    my id - nadigvinayhs@gmail.com

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  11. Hi Lokesh,

    How are you? I am Ashish, we met during the Medical Examination day, I was standing in front of you. I secured 560 this time. Would like to talk to you about your strategy this time. Pl email your contact, will not bother you much, just some tips :-)

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  12. my email id is ashishsingh.iitr@gmail.com

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  13. आपका साक्षात्कार पढकर बहुत अच्छा लगा

    ReplyDelete